Troop is falling apart

[halo]

We live in an area where 80% of the scouts belong to a certain religious organization. The remaining 20% are "community" troops/packs and follow different rules and have to deal with religious organizations' rules at council and district events since they are outnumbered.

Getting community volunteers is a real challenge because of the extra baggage involved, so they are few and far between. There are 5 community troops in our district. We started with one troop (sister troop to pack we started out with). Literally two leaders, both of which were stretched for time to attend troop meetings, let alone camps, activities, etc. In addition, my son didn't have any real friends in the troop, so he switched after 1 1/2 years (and 3 months waiting for a board of review for 1st Class) to a troop that we were also familiar with, had a history of good leadership and boys my son went to school with.

1 1/2 years later, the SM is a no-show 3/4 of the time (his last son is about to earn Eagle and he'll be gone), previous leaders only show up when an older scout gets an Eagle, the older scouts are non-existent except when it's time to get their Eagle, the troop committee is run by the mom's who's boys aren't allowed to half of the scouting stuff except to earn a rank, a CR who is dictatoral in what she will allow the troop to participate in under the guise of "not ruining the reputation of the CO", and the only heir apparent ASM who doesn't believe a scout has to earn anything, you can just give it to them (ie he'll pass a kid in a BOR even if they don't know the Scout Oath). It's ridiculous.

My husband and I do what we can, but we are outvoted 100% of the time. My son is bored. He wants a leadership position but can't get voted in because he didn't do cub scouts with these boys. (He has attend Baden Powell JLT). He doesn't want to change troops again, but he doesn't want to really stay either. It's gotten so bad that at the recent OA elections, the boys literally voted the entire troop (excluding 3 11 yr olds) into OA (my son did not attend that meeting since he had a game that night). Apparently the ASM thought it was a great idea as did the mom's. And the "patrol" method was to split the boys into two patrols with all age ranges. My son has been through 1st Aid training 3 times now just so the young ones can earn their badge.

So, we're stuck. My son doesn't know what he wants to do regarding the troop but he does know he wants to earn his Eagle but not right now (he's only 13). We're about tired of trying/beating our heads against the wall. Going to the District/Council is useless because they have no idea how community packs run.

Any ideas on how to make this fun again?

[wagionvigil]

Halo what council are you from? I am sure you have told us this But I am getting Old.

[halo]

Ore-Ida Council, Boise, Idaho

I'm a whiner, I know. I just hear/read other experiences and I just want more for my sons. I feel they are getting robbed.

[wagionvigil]

That is s decent council and I am quite sure they understand the BSA Program. What it sounds like is you are in a program that is operated quite different than Prescribed BSA Ways. your CO and CR are in no way allowed to interfer with program. The Troops committee approves all program and if the CO wants to drop the troop fined another sponsor.Now what Religious organizations are interfering with the Troop? Other than LDS I know of none But LDS use the BSA program for their Youth Organization. If your son is in a LDS troop and he is not LDS there may be conflict. Enlighten me. You may just e mail me if you like.

[Scouting179]

Halo:

I'm guessing the the %80 you're referring to are LDS troops. I am somewhat familiar with that area, albeit from the past. There are many LDS units there.

I believe an non-LDS youth can join a LDS-sponsored troop. I'd be shocked if they didn't. The troop we're in is Catholic-sponsored, but only about %60 of the boys are Catholic. The LDS troops are generally well run -- but like in any group, some aren't. You said your son is in a "community" troop, so I'm guessing his troop is not one of these LDS troops. The problems you mention are not uncommon. The bottom line is that you can fix the problems in this troop or find another one.

Your son seems to love Scouts. I'd hate to see him miss out on a great program because of some unit problems. All troops go in cycles of how effective their program is. My suggestion is he find a troop with a mostly strong history of activity (at least 10 outings a year, summer camp every year, good advancement record). I say this because from what you say, I don't see things changing in the foreseeable future in the troop you're in.

Good luck.

[Chief J]

I agree with Scouting 179, the problems can be fixed, but it will take some effort and cooperation. Is the Unit Commissioner around to assist? From the thread I would probably guess not.

When I became a Unit Commissioner, I was asked to service a pack that on paper appeared to have no problems. When I made the visit, they had many leadership problems that were starting to crop up. The District solved these problems by meeting with the Chartered Organization to discuss and reaffirm what is supposed to be happening in the unit and what was really happening. We then worked with the Chartered Organization to identify possible solutions to solve the problems. It worked out that the CO was very supportive of the program, and was not aware of the problems. They decided to solicit new leadership across the board and held meetings with parents and other interested folks to choose the new leadership team. After the new leadership was in place, the District ensured they received the necessary training. As the Unit Commissioner I made sure that I was available to the new Leadership as a resource to be used until they were comfortable running the show.

To end this long story, you will need the assistance of District and the Chartered Organization to solve these problems. If the CO really does not want to Charter the unit, I am sure you can find another group who will.

Best Regards,
-Chief J

[cballman]

after a litlle chit chat with our DE today he explained to me almost word for word the way that chief J explained and I believe it should work out for you. It wont be an overnite fix but just work together and Keep your head up. also dont forget we should be doing this for the kids and not our own personal gain.(but a patch here and there helps)

[DPuck]

this troop is a disaster. Sad to say but unless an overhaul is done you and your son need to find a better troop.

Ive never really heard of troops being segregated by religious beliefs. If a non LDS youth wants to join a LDS troop, why cant he?

[JazerNorth]

Ive never really heard of troops being segregated by religious beliefs. If a non LDS youth wants to join a LDS troop, why cant he?

They can. There are a few differences, like praying at Troop meetings, meeting with other youth from the church, etc. But all in all, the troop is ran just about the same.

JazerNorth

[Scouting179]

I have known of non-LDS kids joining a LDS sponosored troop. So it is possible. One well-known case is Eagle Scout and Pulitzer Prize winner Wallace Stegner, and that was back in the 1920s or 1930s.

I also know of non-Jewish kids right now in a troop sponsored by a Jewish Temple.

[halo]

The biggest issue with the LDS v non LDS is the adults, not the kids. Any camps held during the school year are Thur-Sat so they don't miss church. Apparently missing school is okay. Then you have issues of camps on LDS grounds vs. non-LDS grounds. I don't know about you, but if you are going to drag a bunch of men up to a camp, you better have coffee or deal with the wrath. No coffee allowed on LDS grounds. And yes, it has turned violent.

As for my son, joining any other troop, let alone an LDS troop, is something he really does not want to do. I don't know if it's because he's already changed once or not, but, as of now, as much as he doesn't like it, he hasn't reached that final straw yet to want to switch. I think the biggest issue is he doesn't feel he'll have any chance at leadership joining a troop this late. He aleady has the problem now, what would it be like joining a troop now? I know of one troop where the adults would love to have him, and the last troop recently received the National Camping award, but they are so big, he doesn't want to join. It's up to him.

I appreciate everyone's advice. I really wish there was stick of dynamite and the proper place to put it to get this thing back in gear. The CO is happy as long as the COR is happy. The UC is the former SM who is too busy and can't stand the COR to bother with it. We see him at Eagle COH and that's about it. So, we're hoping with a new District Chair this year, things will get better in the District, and thus trickle down into the troops.

I'll just whine until then.

[wagionvigil]

When he returns from the Jamboree he may decide to change then

[Rick Tyler]

As for my son, joining any other troop, let alone an LDS troop, is something he really does not want to do.

We changed troops after four-and-a-half years in a really active troop with 85 scouts and 20 registered and trained leaders. It was the hardest thing we've done in Scouts, and the whole family spent last summer depressed about changing.

Within a month of transferring, my older son said, "Dad, if I'd known how good 575 was, I would have changed a lot sooner."

Encourage your son not to be afraid of change -- whether you fix your current unit or transfer. I'm living proof that a traumatic change can be good.

(Actually, my personal history in Boy Scouts bears this out, too. My Cub Scout pack folded before I earned my Lion. My first Boy Scout troop folded when I was a Star Scout and SPL. My second Boy Scout troop folded six months after I joined, and just before my Life Scoutmaster conference. I joined an Explorer Post that folded after one year. Every Scout unit I belonged to as a youth went out of business, and I don't think it was my fault, either. Despite this, I loved being a scout, and it was one of the best part of my growing up. Having heard this story, units all over the Chief Seattle Council have asked me not to join.)

[halo]

He's already changed once, and there are only two other community options for him in town, one of which he has NO interest in joining. His schedule prevents him from attending out of town, though, technically he could go to the troop the town next over, which is also in our district. His loyalty to his high school prevents that from occuring, as the other town is one of his high school's arch rivals.

Nothing brings out un-scout ike behavior than being asked to do a flag ceremony for your arch rival's high school and the opponent being your high school, where your dad coaches at. I've seen it happen, and it's not pretty.

[wagionvigil]

Option:
Start a Venture Crew. 14-21st Birthday, Co Ed, May still work on Eagle if he has finished 1st Class before Joining the Crew. Actually he could still earn Eagle and then the Ranger Award(it's Tough)

You usually only need 5 to Charter plus Crew Committee, Adv and Associate Adv. and a Chartering Organization. Instead of scout camp do the Northern Tier/Boundry Waters,Sea Base or Philmont. Or go Backinging for a Week You have the Mountains out there.