Scoutmaster Conference

[ynotquilt]

What can a scoutmaster ask at a scoutmaster conference? At our SM/ASM meeting last evening, he told us that he would be making the boys tie their knots at SM conferences. I don't see a problem if it is for the requirements for that rank, but is it OK to ask him to do things that were for previous ranks? Just wondering as, being a female, I've not gone through BORs before.

[Rick Tyler]

What can a scoutmaster ask at a scoutmaster conference? At our SM/ASM meeting last evening, he told us that he would be making the boys tie their knots at SM conferences. I don't see a problem if it is for the requirements for that rank, but is it OK to ask him to do things that were for previous ranks? Just wondering as, being a female, I've not gone through BORs before.

This is actually trickier than you might think.

First, the SM can ask pretty much anything he wants that doesn't violate youth protection rules. We don't get a list of approved question topics from BSA.

Second, if the SM is retesting skills and plans on "failing" the scout because he can't tie knots, the SM is misusing the conference process. If he is having scouts tie knots to make some other point, he might be doing something appropriate. If I thought I had a problem with scouts being passed on requirements they had not mastered, I might detect it during a conference and use that information to change something in the troop's advancement training and signoff procedures. I personally would NOT hold up advancement because a scout had forgotten a skill. If there is an approved signature in the book, the scout completed the requirement. Failing scouts for advancement is solving the wrong problem -- which is poor instruction and testing during the instructional process and is not the scout's fault.

Third, it may not be forbidden, but it's a Real Bad Idea to use a Scoutmaster conference to retest skills that should have been evaluated before the conference even started.

Fourth, it is a HUGELY bad idea for Boards of Review to start reviewing skills. Huge. Bad. Wrong. Seriously missing the point.

So, I might have a scout show a scout skill or two in a SM conference if I thought there was a really egregious problem, but I am MUCH more likely to postpone a conference if I felt a scout was not yet completed the requirements. This has never actually happened with me, but here is an imaginary conversation:

Billy: Can I get a conference for First Class tonight?
Me: I see in your book that your brother signed off all your knots and lashing requirements.
Billy: It's OK, right? He's allowed to do that?
Me: Well, yes he is. He's a troop instructor. Do you think you really know all your lashings?
Billy: Well, yeah, sure.
Me: If I asked you to show them to me at the conference, would you be ready?
Billy: Maybe.
Me: Wouldn't you feel better to know that you we were prepared?
Billy: I guess.
Me: Let's do that conference next week so you and your brother have a chance to go over your First Class requirements again.
Billy: Sure.

Problems should not be handled during an SM conference for advancement. In fact, I'd rather have an informal (or formal) conference with a scout about other issues BEFORE the advancement conference. It's better for the scout, and makes it much less likely that I'm going to get angry calls or email from disgruntled parents.

[t305spl]

Im sorry but I have not read any other part of this topic other than the title and wanted to ask a question about scoutmasters conferences. To my knowledge the only time a scoutmasters conference can be signed off is after all the requirments are complete. So can someone confirm that you cant have a rank advancement scoutmasters conference and get it signed off until all other requirements for that rank are signed off.

[Scouting179]

Everything else except the BOR must be signed off before the SMC. One sort-of caveat: In our troop, the SM is the only one who signs off "Scout Spirit" and he does that at the same time as the SMC.

[Lynda J]

On the SMC the SM can ask any question he choses and he can ask a scout to show any skill he has learned at any rank he has already earned.
If the SM is signing off on a scout he has to be assured that the scout has learned the skills.

Now on BOR of review it is different except for Eagle.
The BOR is not a retest of a scouts skills. That has already been done by the SM at the SMC.
Below is a guideline we use. You don't have to ask each and every question. Normally each board member will ask three of four questions.



What is the "Outdoor Code", and what does it mean to you?
"A Scout is Trustworthy" is the first part of the Scout Lws. What does TRUSTWORTHY mean to you? (you may substitute any one of the laws for this question)
What is you most memorable experience in Scouting?
In your opinion, why is the "buddy system" so important in scouting? How have you used the buddy system in your scouting activities?
What did you enjoy most on your last troop campout? Were there any problems that occurred? How would you have handled the problem (differently)?
What did you enjoy most about Boy Scout summer camp? Why?
What is your favorite outdoor activity that the troop does? Why?
In your opinion, what can be improved at your Troop meetings, and what can you do to help?
If a Cub Scout (Webelos Scout) were to visit your troop, what would you do to make him feel confortable?
The Boy Scout Slogan is "Do a good turn daily". What type of act of kindness do you think really qualifies as a Good Turn?
What do you consider is Scout Spirit? How have you shown "Scout Spirit" in your daily life since joining Boy Scouts?
What Leadership position could you best fulfill? Why?
What are 3 best things you enjoy about Boy Scouting?
What can you do to help the troop get ready for a campout?
What merit badge did you enjoy the most earning? Why?
In your opinion, what was the most important thing you learned while earning the _______ merit badge?
What advice would you give to a new Patrol leader on how to get the members of his patrol to participate in Scouting activities?
In your opinion, what is a leader?
What leadership qualities have you learned and used as you developed your role as a (leadership position the Scout is currently holding)?
What do you consider the most important part of the Boy Scout Oath?
Give one way in which you practice the Boy Scout Oath.
What part of the Scout Law do you find the hardest to observe?
What are your future goals? how has scouting helped you in achieving those goals?
How long do you intend to be involved in Scouting?
What do you think your primary duties as an American citizen are?
If you found a fellow scout smoking on a campout, what would be your reaction, and what would you do about it?
What has Scouting given you that makes you feel proud?
What new thing did you learn from your favorite merit badge?
What does the American Flag mean to you?
What does citizenship mean to you?
What do you think the job of Senior Patrol Leader is? (or any other leadership position)
What does the Scout uniform mean to you?
Why do you think it is important for everybody to be in a proper Scout uniform?
What are some school activities that you can use your scouting resourses in?
How do you think scouting has affected your academic standing in school?
How could you try to give Scouting back what it gave you?
How do you see yourself in the Scouting program after you are an adult?
What are your plans for the rank of Eagle?
What do you think Eagle Scouts should do after they make the highest rank in Scouting?
What is your favorite part of a campfire?
What have you done in Scouting that will help you in the future?
What are yoou most proud of that you have accomplished in Scouting?
Why do you feel that Scouts are ridiculed by their classmates?
Would you be willing to wear your scout uniform to school? Why?
Would you rather a Scout teach you how to tie a knot, or an adult? Why?
Why do you come to troop meetings?
What kind of question would you ask on a Board of Review for your present rank?
In your opinion, what is the most important merit badge you have earned, and why?
Why do you feel you are ready for the next rank?



We keep the BOR to no more than 15 minutes for ranks other than Eagle.
The one thing that would really put me off is if a Scout comes into a BOR and does not introduce himself and shake the hand of each board member.

[momma_bee]

Funny I found this thread.

I sat on a BOR which did not involve the SM. The woman who 'trained' me told me to write down every question she asked the Scout and then when her son came in I was supposed to ask him the same questions.

We discussed this at camp (adults) and folks couldn't see anything wrong with that.

My thought was if 4 boys earned a MB off the same person and we asked them all the same skills question and they gave the wrong answer we would think they were not paying attention and review it later but if we asked 4 different questions and they each gave a wrong answer we would know the MB counselor didn't do the job well.

I had parents say it wasn't fair to ask different questions. Really? I didn't know it was a contest between the boys.

I love the list of suggested questions. Now tell me, is there an article or booklet that you give to people before they sit on the BOR? Does the SM have to be there or can any person stand in for him? I was told the SM never sat on them.

[Rick Tyler]

On the SMC the SM can ask any question he choses and he can ask a scout to show any skill he has learned at any rank he has already earned.
If the SM is signing off on a scout he has to be assured that the scout has learned the skills.

Sorry, Lynda, but I can't find a single thing in the Scoutmaster's Handbook or the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures that indicates that the Scoutmaster's Conference includes the purpose of insuring that a Scout has mastered skills. The conference's primary purpose is to make sure that the boy is having a good scouting experience, and to build a personal relationship with the Scoutmaster. All skills testing should have been completed before the requirement was "signed off."

I encourage all of you adult leaders to get and read the "Scoutmaster's Handbook." After all, we expect the boys to read the "Boy Scout Handbook" don't we?

[Lynda J]

I don't know it if is actually written. But in my advancement training we were told that the main purpose of the SMC was to make sure that the boys had learned the skills. Especially if someone other than the SM was the one that signed off on requirements. No the boy should not be requqired to repeat each rank requirement but the SM can ask him to tie a knot or go over first aid if he choses.
The thing is that the SM is pretty much open to ask anything about scouting he may chose.

Also a SM or ASM does not sit on a BOR. The parent of a boy can not sit on their sons BOR. We did a BOR last night. One problem we had was that two of the boys up for rank were sons of two of the board members. As luck would have it. Our COR came in just after we started meeting to check something on the building. We as him to sit on those two reviews. He was more than glad to do this.