Scouts with Disabilities

[optimist]

Messages moved from MeritBadge.com

ScoutmasterBob
Counselor

Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Woods Cross, Utah
Posted: 02 Aug 2004 03:56 pm Post subject: Scouts with
Disabilities

We had a member in another discussion area ask about Scouts
with disabilities. I thought that topic deserved its own
discussion forum.

If you have had any experience with disabled Scouts, please
share your stories here.

I have done some preliminary research on this topic and have
only been able to find the following info on this subject.
www.scouting.org says:
A Scout with special needs must earn as many merit badges as
possible (toward the Eagle rank) and then contacts their local
council for alternative merit badges to complete.

We would like more information about this subject.

I will continue to search on this topic and will make post as
needed.
_________________
Bob Torkelson
Scoutmaster Troop 538
www.wx5troop538.homestead.com
Live The Oath!

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wagionvigil
Counselor

Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 189
Location: PA
Posted: 03 Aug 2004 06:48 am Post subject:

Several years ago we tried to establish a unit Just for
Special Needs Scouts. It was in our local Citizens with
Disabilities chapter. It receieved great applause from the
parents that had youth in it BUT there was a problem getting
leaders and if we did they would not take training. Finally we
asked the parents of the boys involved to please take over the
leadership of the troop and all refused. Needless to say the
troop folded. Some of the boys joined other troops but sadly
most did not.
_________________
Action Center D Rappel Tower Director 2001 and 2005 National
Jamborees
Northeast REgion Area 4 Venturing Chairman
Wagion 6 Lodge Advisor 96-99
"If you ain't A bear you're a Meal"

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RWSmith
Counselor

Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 55
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posted: 03 Aug 2004 11:25 am Post subject:

Here's a good place to start...

National BSA Policy On Advancement for Youth Members with
Special Needs...

http://www.meritbadge.com/info/policy5.htm
_________________
Bob Smith, OA, NESA, DAV
ADC, Apache District

If you can read this, thank a teacher... If you can read it in
English, thank a Veteran.

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ScoutmasterBob
Counselor

Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Woods Cross, Utah
Posted: 04 Aug 2004 09:07 am Post subject:

Thanks for that link Bob!
I went and visited my local Council office to see what kind of
info I could find on this subject. Wow I found soooooo much
stuff.

I found info on:
Scouts with Physical Disabilities
Scouts with Learning Disabilities
Scouts with Mental Retardation
Scouts with Emotional Disabilities
Scouting for the Blind
Scouting for the Deaf

The one common thread in all the pamphlets was what was said
in the link Bob Smith posted.
A scout must do as many Merit badges toward Eagle as possible
then contact the local council for alternatives.
That also applies to advancement.

Wow! I cant believe how much there was to know on this
subject. I have a lot of reading to do, I will share my
discoveries as I go along!
_________________
Bob Torkelson
Scoutmaster Troop 538
www.wx5troop538.homestead.com
Live The Oath!

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Mick Scouter
Scout

Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 7
Location: New Manchester WV
Posted: 04 Aug 2004 03:47 pm Post subject:

Thanks, Scoutmaster Bob for placing a disability topic. I was
thinking about posting the topic but you beat me to it. This
is my first posting but I'm certain there will be more. I have
experience with disabilities and with scouting but I am
looking for more information. I need to put together a plan
for three boys that have different disabilities and I will
keep everyone posted as they develop. I have read the
alternative merit badge requirements and even some of those
are not appropriate. I would be interested if someone has put
together a plan or strategy to have boys will disabilities
achieve eagle.

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ScoutmasterBob
Counselor

Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 79
Location: Woods Cross, Utah
Posted: 05 Aug 2004 11:09 am Post subject:

I think the first step in your program should be to have the
scouts complete as much of the requirments as they are capable
of as they are written.
One of the pamphlets I read suggests, It may take these scouts
a little longer to complete advancement requirements, using
the immidiete recognition system with the leather thongs and
beads can be a real motivator.
After they have done all they can do, there is a four step
proceedure to follow.
Step 1-Do as many standard requirements as possible.
Step 2-Secure a Medical Statement
Step 3-Prepare a request for Alternate Requirements
Step 4-The Council Advancement Committee reviews the Request.

http://www.meritbadge.com/info/policy5.htm
This link gives more details about the steps above.

Each disabled scout is going to need a program specifically
siuted for his circumstances, but the best place to start is
with the standard advancement requirements. Do as much as is
possible and then apply for the alternatives.

Not many people would take on a task like this one, God bless
you for your willingness to do so!
_________________
Bob Torkelson
Scoutmaster Troop 538
www.wx5troop538.homestead.com
Live The Oath!

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optimist
Advancement Chairman

Joined: 27 Jun 2004
Posts: 126

Posted: 05 Aug 2004 11:30 am Post subject:

The following web site has some excellent resources for this
topic:

http://www.boyscouts-marin.org/wwswd/

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Mick Scouter
Scout

Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 7
Location: New Manchester WV
Posted: 05 Aug 2004 04:21 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the advice! I read the information available but
until you said DO the requirements that they can it didn't
sink in. I was thinking that if a boy can not swim, "not won't
swim" due to a physical disability that I needed to define now
what the requirements would be to substitute for the other
advancements. But with the alternative award program I can
show advancement. Thanks for the words of encouragement I just
hope we can make it a success!

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Mick Scouter
Scout

Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 7
Location: New Manchester WV
Posted: 05 Aug 2004 04:55 pm Post subject:

Optimist, Thanks, I missed your link the first time around.
WOW! I haven't expored it yet but it looks good.

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wagionvigil
Counselor

Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 189
Location: PA
Posted: 06 Aug 2004 08:44 am Post subject:

The alternate requirement DOES NOT APPLY to the Swimming
Requirements for a boy that does not have a learning
Disibility or a severe handicap.
_________________
Action Center D Rappel Tower Director 2001 and 2005 National
Jamborees
Northeast REgion Area 4 Venturing Chairman
Wagion 6 Lodge Advisor 96-99
"If you ain't A bear you're a Meal"

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Mick Scouter
Scout

Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 7
Location: New Manchester WV
Posted: 06 Aug 2004 03:02 pm Post subject:

I understand that alternative merit badges do not apply to
boys who do not have a physical or mental disability. I'm
sorry if that is what you thought I meant. What I meant was
some boys with disabilities are held back because the adults
think that they can not do something. Therefore, the boy
begins to believe they can't or won't do what is within their
abilities. For example I had one boy with down syndrome earn
his swimming merit badge this summer. He is quite an
accomplished swimmer dispite his disability. He has also taken
lessons at the local YMCA for 4 years. At the beginning of the
week he had difficulty passing the swim test because he had
not swam in a lake before but after he became comfortable with
the water he showed his abilities. We as leaders of boys with
disabilities must encourage them to do their best. We must be
careful that we do not push them beyond their capabilities,
but often they are limited by the adults in their lives not
believing they can do more. Sometimes a child with a
disability can do better when a parent or guardian is not
there telling them they can't. This is not true in all cases
but as a parent with 2 children with disabilities even I find
myself doing more for them because it is easier. Sometimes it
take longer but the rewards can also be greater. Thanks for
the input.

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wagionvigil
Counselor

Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 189
Location: PA
Posted: 06 Aug 2004 03:16 pm Post subject:

I knew what you meant BUT someone else may not. My thought on
Scouts with Disabilities are as follows. They are held back in
most cases by their Parents. Their parents want them to do
things like "other boys" but they want to make it so easy
without any struggle. I have worked with Downs kids,autistic,
Physicially DA and they all can do alot more then their
parents think they can.
_________________
Action Center D Rappel Tower Director 2001 and 2005 National
Jamborees
Northeast REgion Area 4 Venturing Chairman
Wagion 6 Lodge Advisor 96-99
"If you ain't A bear you're a Meal"

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Mick Scouter
Scout

Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 7
Location: New Manchester WV
Posted: 06 Aug 2004 08:00 pm Post subject:

Thanks for reminding me that I may not be having discussions
with everyone that understands the principles of scouting,
advancement and in this case scouting with disabilities. I
will keep that in mind in future entries. I agree with you
completely that parents (as I stated earlier, "me included"
but at least I recognize my frailties) that people with
disabilities can do more than expected when given the
opportunity than their parents or guardians think they can.
This is why scouting with disabilities is such an important
program. We must ensure that we hold these boys just like all
boys to the high standard that scouting has established.
Thanks, wagionvigil, I am looking forward to more discussion.

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wagionvigil
Counselor

Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 189
Location: PA
Posted: 06 Aug 2004 08:49 pm Post subject:

Handicap is in the eye of the beholder to steal a phrase. I
have rappeled kids from wheel chairs,a scout over 400
pounds,and scout with no hands an autistic scout that did not
speak. These same scouts also did zip lines and flying
squirrels. The wheel chair kid was cool as we had to run with
the wheel chair with him in it. So I really have not found any
handicapped scouts just adults that handicapped the kid.
_________________
Action Center D Rappel Tower Director 2001 and 2005 National
Jamborees
Northeast REgion Area 4 Venturing Chairman
Wagion 6 Lodge Advisor 96-99
"If you ain't A bear you're a Meal"

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Mick Scouter
Scout

Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 7
Location: New Manchester WV
Posted: 07 Aug 2004 12:06 pm Post subject:

I could not agree with you more. I once was at a conference
where the keynote speaker was born with multiple disabilities.
He was missing portions of both hands and legs and feet. He
was also a professional tennis player and accomplished many
more things in life. During his speach he said, (in speaking
to a group of adults that had children with spina bifida) "the
biggest difference between me and you is that you can see my
disability and yours is hidden" (meaning in the mist of
discrimination, or whatever disability that lies beneath each
and every one of us.

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[Mick Scouter]

I was just looking back on this topic. One that was not active since the conversion. I guess my name never got moved over because I see that I joined initially on Aug 3, 2004 and then had to rejoin in February. That was no big deal. However, I thought I might try to bring back this thread and see if there is any interest. The boys are moving forward with MBs and I have made some progress with the advancement plan but I'll ask for some successful advice from the scouters with experience. Also, for those going to Jamboree pease take note if there is any good info on disabilities there. I have all the materials I'm just looking for outside the box ideas. Also, someday I would like to put together some information to help others on Scouts with Disabilities.

[OldGreyBear]

My son was born with epispadias, thats an imcomplete formation of the urinary system. There are many forms, anywhere from not having the lower half of the abdomen closed to tiny imperfections. Well, my son was born without a penis. Male yes, but just an opning and some tissue that looked like a split hot dog. After tests to determine sex, (yes, he is a male) an operation was done to surgically construct a penis when he was 6 months old. The problem was without the necessary muscles in the penis, he could never control his bladder, he just leaked urine all the time which was alright as a baby and toddler, but as he got older, it wasnt as accpetable. He was also diagnosed as dyslexic and ADD. Around ages 7-8 he had his ureters transplanted from his bladder to his colon so he would urinate/defecate stool at the same time. This gave him much better control, but if he laughed or was startled, he would have an "Accident". When we first joined the troop, he always tented with me, I carried all the necessary supplies as well as a portable toilet that he would use. I had it so if it were to be discovered, it would be mine. Well he caught some heck because he was always with daddy. Eventually at age 13 he had a appendicovesicostomy (hope I got this right) The surgeons took his ureters off his colon and put them back on the bladder, augmented it with colon tissue and then took his appendix and connected it to the new bladder and the outside abdomen wall. He now urinates by passing a catheter (10 french) through the stoma into the bladder. He sleeps at night with a catheter in his bladder attached to a drainage bag. He tented with me a few times before he said, " I am who I am" and joined the troop. Showing them the bag. He never had a problem, or none that I heard about.

He is Add, Dyslexic and has disfluencies, but he was elected SPL as well. HE was patrol leader to the 2001 Naitonal Jamboree, on staff at council JLTC for two years and an Eagle scout with a second bronze palm.

In the early days, I and he were ready to quit more than a few times, while his peers came to accept him, the older scouts werent to sure. But I am an old Eagle and I wanted him to see all the benefits of the program. We stuck it out, and both are glad we did. We attended a Naitonal Jamboree together, even if he did need two footlockers, one full of supplies, we have been white water rafting in Maine, been to Gettysburg, Antietam and a whole bunch of other places. Curretnly the Troop has 3 boys who use walkers or other aids in walking.

In the end, the scouts will mirror the behavior of the adults (that adult association thing, its pretty powerful stuff).

[riverwalk]

I salute you both, for Scouting over these hurdles. And wouldn't we want any Youth with special circumstances to have such opportunities.

[Scouting179]

I'm glad you shared this. It must have been a difficult, but I'm glad you both stuck it out and found your ways down the Scouting path.

I'd like to share this with others, especially youth when they think they "have it so bad" (without using names or locations, of course).

[Mick Scouter]

Thank you OldGreyBear. I have been somewhat reluctant to share all of my sons experiences but I will do so. Just need to think about exactly how I want to write the post. Thank you, thank you and thank you. You have given me a renewed desire to move forward. More to come.

[OldGreyBear]

There is an old saying about when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade. Well, I know it sounds trite, but consider this:

We were on a cabin campout last winter. It has two levels. The boys were in the two upstiars rooms, the older boys in one (where my son was) and the younger in another. The adults were all downstairs. Well, as it often happens the younger boys were being very rambunctious and noisy and wouldnt settle down. The older boys kept telling the younger ones to be quiet. Well, eventually my son has had enough, he walks over the youner boy side, and flips on the light. There he is, with his catheter bag 1/2 filled raised to eye level and he says "Hey, you guys be quiet, this thing is loaded and I am not afraid to use it.

The place went totally silent and stayed that way till morning, then he told me what happened and I laughed for 10 minutes.

[Mick Scouter]

That is funny